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Discuss Blacksmith Elder
12-03-2007, 08:24 PM,
Post: #26
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
Free smithing for full clan members I can agree with. I do that too. But free smithing for all... that's another story.
Oh joy.
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12-03-2007, 08:32 PM,
Post: #27
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
i smith for free only for clan members too, but i'm in so many clans... it seems like everybody is a clan member, especially when i was in the lost souls
I do not believe in those false words any longer, actions speak louder then words.
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12-03-2007, 09:27 PM,
Post: #28
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
Well...IMO..it depends on the smith whether he/she wants to charge or not ....maybe some people dont mind to be charge but some people do..  ;D.
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12-04-2007, 12:24 AM,
Post: #29
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
Eliana Wrote:i smith for free only for clan members too, but i'm in so many clans... it seems like everybody is a clan member, especially when i was in the lost souls

I meant in the clan I own.
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12-04-2007, 12:42 AM,
Post: #30
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
As smith elder, you can't force anything. You can't make smiths charge because you don't have (and aren't given) the power to do so. You can only suggest, and if you kick for failure to follow suggestions or "rules" like some things around here, yeah that's power-crazed. Tongue

You just manage members. Whether or not charging should be mandated is not in the description.

Again, I have to reiterate that I'm rich. Why should I charge for a measly sum of 500 crowne? If they don't pay, what then? Do I keep the item, arguing over a silly amount of crowne, get accused of scamming because I won't return the item and then be kicked from the guild? The second smithing request I've ever had involved just that and because of it, I stopped charging because it's just a crapload of a hassle when it doesn't go right. I'd gladly forfeit 500 crowne per smith to avoid crap like that.
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there is absolutely nothing wrong with the staff system, its being run just like its always been. - LordDoerr
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12-04-2007, 01:11 AM,
Post: #31
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
Kraxxia Wrote:If they don't pay, what then? Do I keep the item, arguing over a silly amount of crowne, get accused of scamming because I won't return the item and then be kicked from the guild?

I would have the one accusing you send me a screenshot of his/her event log. If (s)he refuses, it would be because the entry regarding you and the sent crowne doesn't exist.


As for the rest, Shuck's description of a Elder Smith's duties is too vague to be clear. "Overseeing members" has a number of interpretations. So I will neither argue your point nor agree with it because I just plain don't know enough.


Edit: I forgot to mention, there's a blacklist in the guild chat. If you don't want to deal with it at all, just return the item, blacklist them, and no smith that reads will deal with them again.
Oh joy.
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12-04-2007, 02:45 AM,
Post: #32
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
A Black Smith Elder will set the example. They can set up guidelines and gently encourage others to use them as well. It is not too hard to charge even 50c per smith. It's acceptable. Really, what's the point of allowing smithing and such if we don't utilize it as a business and make even a tiny profit? Some see it as a waste of energy others as a waste of time. What the guild needs is to be restructured. Maybe not necessarily more smiths, active smiths and a better and more solid foundation to build from. I can see how this is an asset to the game. it gives the players a way to help and be a part of the game from the inside. That's why there was originally a guild chat. It means something to be a blacksmith but others don't see that. They think it's laughable. So says one person to me, that the position is laughable if a player can now be an Elder. This isn't so. That player would just need to work hard to keep the guild in shape and to put it that way as well.

Sorry for the rant.
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12-04-2007, 03:05 AM,
Post: #33
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
I'm not a smith, nor do i really plan to be, but the way i see it, if you want to charge, there are too many smiths, you ened a select few so your time is precious enough to allow charging

but like others have said, even in business, people can and do give away freebies and stuff (its called sales buy one get one free etc) if they choose to smith for free, this isnt a communist government, you cannot tell them they hafta charge a certain price or get out, even if you limit the smiths, if i want to do it for free, that is MY choice, and MY profit being lost, i'm not on 24/7, catch my meaning?
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12-04-2007, 01:01 PM,
Post: #34
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
well... tho it hasnt been mentioned... it is possible to force, if not the smiths themselves, but the smithings to be charged.  anvil use, raw material, etc... but, at this time, i dont see this as really a good option...

*tosses two crowne into the pot*
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12-04-2007, 01:22 PM,
Post: #35
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
i think there should be monthly guild fees Undecided would be an easy way to keep inactive players out of the guild, as well as be a bit of a crowne sink, also it would make smiths charge a bit for smithing just so they can pay for the fee if they wish to continue to smith. not a horrendous amount of course, but a small fee
To accept passively an unjust system is to cooperate with that system; thereby the oppressed become as evil as the oppressor. Noncooperation with evil is as much a moral obligation as is cooperation with good.
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12-04-2007, 03:04 PM,
Post: #36
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
Why not have an entry fee? Say, when the person joins he/she must pay for complete acceptance. After the application being overlooked and ready to be accepted, the person pays a one-time fee for use of the anvil and then is free to do as he/she wishes. As it is now, it's the same without the entrance fee. I think it might also get some people out of applying just for reason to have the blacksmith's guild section in their profile (Which I wouldn't doubt some people do, and then smith once in a blue moon). Well... for the people already there, lucky for them?
To understand others is to have knowledge;
To understand oneself is to be enlightened.
To conquer others requires strength;
To conquer oneself is even harder.
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12-04-2007, 08:44 PM,
Post: #37
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
Those smiths that think they are not respected for what they do just because they don't charge for their services are wrong.

Have you ever considered the reason there are so many smiths may just be because, as lower level players, those that are smiths now looked up to those wonderful people that smithed for them?  Smile
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12-04-2007, 09:27 PM,
Post: #38
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
In thinking about the Blacksmith elder position two words come to mind, Dependable and Responsible.

OK, so what is dependable? To me it is a person who will make the commitment to being on the game every day. To review applications as soon as they come in and reply immediately. Not necessarily to accept or reject immediately but to at least let the applicant know that you are working on it. And then to follow through and make a decision in a reasonable time.

Now for responsible. This is someone who will take the time to talk with the other smiths and encourage them to advance their skills. To be reasonable if they decide to charge for their services. (A level 2 player can’t afford to pay 5000c to have his 250c short sword smithed.) And to advertise their services. (I have seen smiths sit quietly in the Tavern while a new player is begging for someone to smith his sword.)

As to my qualifications for this position.
I play every day and smith items for my clanmates daily. I will also smith for anyone I meet in the Tavern who needs my services. I do not charge for my services but I have been very well compensated in tips from greatfull customers. To me smithing is another way I can help my fellow players advance in this game.
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12-05-2007, 07:33 PM,
Post: #39
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
I know that many of the nominees are excited they have been nominated. You all have taken the time to write Speeches and try to convince your fellow members why they should vote for you. Personally I have an image of what I would like the guild to be but after reading all of the speeches so far I feel I cannot vote for any one of you. So far only one person has written something that actually sways me towards them but I feel its not enough for its a very small attribute to have. However for the rest of the content it has shown very little of what values or ideas they wish to take the guild. Basically what I am trying to say is, if you really take this seriously; please take the time to think about how you think you would see the place run. How do other people wish it to be run. It doesnt hurt to ask people how they feel about the guild now, see what they like, what they dont like. A little hint would be to run through the actual forum the guild already has and pick out past ideas and complaints. Set yourself on a "platform" of ideas that allow other players to see exactly what you believe and gain their vote.
[move] Any Progress is GOOD Progress![/move]
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12-05-2007, 10:27 PM,
Post: #40
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
...Um...Revised
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12-06-2007, 10:02 AM,
Post: #41
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
Zutilla, firstly become elder, and then worry about all those. If you`re not the elder, you can be sure that you won`t have the power to make the changes you wish
Childhood is short, immaturity is forever Big Grin

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12-06-2007, 12:29 PM,
Post: #42
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
I think you should force a fee. For people that want to earn money with smithing? NO! People who smith for free ruin it. I say make the smither pay 500c per item, so they can either pay for they player or make them pay to break even or to make a small profit.
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12-06-2007, 01:38 PM,
Post: #43
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
So you're saying you want the Blacksmiths to pay to smith their own tonics and potions too?  If that were the case it  would be cheaper to pay another  smith 500  crown and save your nrg.
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12-06-2007, 05:44 PM,
Post: #44
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
Well not everything is free, right? Maybe if your a dedicated smither, like energy (though in this point, it would be activeness of smither) the price goes down. This would be so players would have to charge others (cause some people would like a little profit for their energy) and indirectly be a bit of a crowne sink.
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12-06-2007, 09:39 PM,
Post: #45
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
why not just leave it the ay they want it?
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12-07-2007, 01:23 PM,
Post: #46
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
  I agree. *agrees*

  How about using 250iron and say, 50-100copper per smithing?
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12-07-2007, 07:55 PM,
Post: #47
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
You realize getting that much copper/iron can take upwards of 20 energy or more. Even at my level in mining, it'll take 3-4 energy. That's 3-4 energy TIMES THREE per smithing, with crowne. 500c wouldn't even cover a third of the cost. Although you can buy the ore, it's usually 1:1 in cost, so 300-400 crowne per smith in ore, plus the extra crowne tax. That's 900+ to 1200+ crowne to fully smith ONE ITEM. Instead of the very unlikely chance of charging 500c or anything, smiths are forced to charge 1500 or more just to cover costs. :-\

So instead of using 1 energy at level 20, you use 10+ energy total, and spend crowne... if you did it yourself. And that's at my stats, so a beginner miner/smith would be using upwards of 20 or more energy to fully smith something... and for what? There isn't enough content for smiths yet to make that much energy/crowne burning worth it.
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there is absolutely nothing wrong with the staff system, its being run just like its always been. - LordDoerr
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12-07-2007, 08:42 PM,
Post: #48
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
  Yes, but I must make it hard on you Blacksmiths. Tongue

  Hows about 50iron, 25copper and 150crowne then? '>.>
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12-07-2007, 10:10 PM,
Post: #49
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
they wouldn't have to mine the iron/copper themselves..this could help benefit the miners of the game. lol i could finally do something with the 4 million iron i have sitting on my account.
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12-07-2007, 10:18 PM,
Post: #50
Re: Discuss Blacksmith Elder
Twas something I'd considered already actually. A way to use the iron and copper for another purpose besides buying clans and such. But the more I thought about it, the more I wanted to try and add other minerals that can be mined to the list. Like coal to fuel the fires that keep the forge hot. Other such items that could be useful. Or these minerals could be a bartering chip for smiths. Something the smiths might pay the guild with for using other materials from the forge.
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